Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject: Quran alone
Salam all
This is not going to be a long comment, rather a very short one, indirectly replying to most of the goons especially Khalil who keeps on underestimating and undermine the message of the Quran alone to serve his own desirs and lust for the man made Bukhari Springer Hadith
There was a music concert yesterday or so:
LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- It was the hottest ticket in town. Colin Farrell was there. So were Michelle Branch, Josh Groban and Chris Isaak -- the latter accompanied by his manager's dog, Rodney.
Yusuf, formerly known as Cat Stevens, believes he can help bridge gaps between cultures.
No, we're not talking about a Britney Spears or U2 concert. We're talking about a star-studded, invitation-only club show by Yusuf -- the artist formerly known as Cat Stevens.
CNN took the chance and talked with him, the full dialogue is found here:
CNN: I think a lot of people were surprised when you converted to Islam in the '70s. People didn't understand it. Even today, I think there are those who still don't understand it.
Yusuf: It's true. I used to be prejudiced -- as prejudiced as anyone about Islam. ... And then I was given the opportunity of reading the actual source, the Quran itself, without anybody forcing me or looking over my shoulder and saying, "What do you think?" It was just me in my space.
And that is what I am talking about all my life now
If you want to be a true Muslim, then fuk the man made crap of Jerry Hadith and Sira, and just look at the source alone, i.e. the Quran alone
Status: Age: 76 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Jun 12, 2007
Posts: 614
Post subject: Re: Quran alone
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Salam all
This is not going to be a long comment, rather a very short one, indirectly replying to most of the goons especially Khalil who keeps on underestimating and undermine the message of the Quran alone to serve his own desirs and lust for the man made Bukhari Springer Hadith
There was a music concert yesterday or so:
LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- It was the hottest ticket in town. Colin Farrell was there. So were Michelle Branch, Josh Groban and Chris Isaak -- the latter accompanied by his manager's dog, Rodney.
Yusuf, formerly known as Cat Stevens, believes he can help bridge gaps between cultures.
No, we're not talking about a Britney Spears or U2 concert. We're talking about a star-studded, invitation-only club show by Yusuf -- the artist formerly known as Cat Stevens.
CNN took the chance and talked with him, the full dialogue is found here:
CNN: I think a lot of people were surprised when you converted to Islam in the '70s. People didn't understand it. Even today, I think there are those who still don't understand it.
Yusuf: It's true. I used to be prejudiced -- as prejudiced as anyone about Islam. ... And then I was given the opportunity of reading the actual source, the Quran itself, without anybody forcing me or looking over my shoulder and saying, "What do you think?" It was just me in my space.
And that is what I am talking about all my life now
If you want to be a true Muslim, then fuk the man made crap of Jerry Hadith and Sira, and just look at the source alone, i.e. the Quran alone
Salam
Hello, Ahmed
Came back last night and read your above post on the notorious goons' site FFI.
Even the goons are unable to comprehend a simple post and the reason for making the post.
Thanks for giving the fools the reason for removing your avatar. Now they see that you can screw and grill the goons without even an avatar. It was good to see Bunny telling the goon yeezevee to behave.
The goon skynightblaze is beyond rehab and redemption. lol!
Thanks, mate
BMZ
Posted:
Thu 21 May, 2009 1:32 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Salam all
A member in here Pervez Mushtaq replied to me on FFI, I will copy his crap in here, then later on if I have time I may have a smal comment to make to him:
parvez mushtaq wrote:
Quote:
May I ask what is Illat?
how about using brown sugar or cocaine or marijuana
after , these things are not prohibited in quran
if you say NO and say these things are haram as per quran then your ruling is from the illat of the ayah
005.090
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper
if say "we can use the above stuff" , then go ahead carry on , this is a free world
quran itself makes these clear when it talk about IDDAH
just ask a question , why there should be iddah , and quran answers this directly
this is called the illat
Quote:
so let me ask you then, can the religion of Islam exist with no books of hadith?
question itself wrong , dear ahmed , law is not important , its interpretation is important
and hadiths as well as Islamic sources available makes it easier
Quote:
That's right, like understanding sura 66 in which Ibn Kathir and his likes alleg that the prophet was fukin Maria on hafsah's bed
dear ...dear ..dear
ibn kathir is not lord
and BTW it is debatable and out of the scope of this thread
Quote:
Mate, your man made books of hadith has only one place, the toilet then flush it
yes , there are lots of them , but not all of them
Quote:
To the people around him, and from them their offsprings inherited it
For exampl, I will show my son orally how to pray, then I will tell him to do the same with his son, how bloody simple
you are correct , salaah is obvious
we don't care much about obvious
did you ever bothered whether the sun shines or not
or
did you ever bother about the color of grass
must be "NO"
cos sun always shines and grass is green
this is obvious
like wise , salaah is the most minimum you can expect form a muslim so no one bothered to care about it
but
there is lot of materiel written down regarding it
and we need a forum like this to debate about those things
(note that , we need a forum not thread !)
Quote:
I am born Ahl Al Quran alone
i think you have mistaken me , i mean to say i was born in a ahluh hadith family
Quote:
do not care about that, the method I inherited it from my father is logical and good enough, on the other hand, why not show us your hadith that teach us the prayer?
how many you want dear , here we go
takbir
Characteristics of Prayer
Bukhari :: Book 1 :: Volume 12 :: Hadith 768
Narrated Abu Bakr bin 'Abdur Rahman Ibn Harith bin Hisham and Abu Salama bin 'Abdur Rahman:
Abu Huraira used to say Takbir in all the prayers, compulsory and optional -- in the month of Ramadan or other months. He used to say Takbir on standing for prayer and on bowing; then he would say, "Salmi'a-l-lahu Liman hamida," and before prostrating he would say "Rabbana walaka-l-hamd." Then he would say Takbir on prostrating and on raising his head from the prostration, then another Takbir on prostrating (for the second time), and on raising his head from the prostration. He also would say the Takbir on standing from the second Rak'a. He used to do the same in every Rak'a till he completed the prayer. On completion of the prayer, he would say, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is! No doubt my prayer is closer to that of Allah's Apostle than yours, and this was His prayer till he left this world." And Abu Huraira said, "When Allah's Apostle raised his head from (bowing) he used to say "Sami' a-l-lahu Liman hamida, Rabbana walakal-hamd." He Would invoke Allah for some people by naming them: "O Allah! Save Al-Walid bin Al-Walid and Salama bin Hisham and 'Aiyash bin Abi Rabi'a and the weak and the helpless people among the faithful believers O Allah! Be hard on the tribe of Mudar and let them suffer from famine years like that of the time of Joseph." In those days the Eastern section of the tribe of Mudar was against the Prophet
Raising hands
Prayer (Kitab Al-Salat): Details of Commencing Prayer
Dawud :: Book 3 : Hadith 743
Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:
When the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) stood for offering the obligatory prayer, he uttered the takbir (Allah is most great) and raised his hands opposite to his shoulders; and he did like that when he finished recitation (of the Qur'an) and was about to bow; and he did like that when he rose after bowing; and he did not raise his hands in his prayer while he was in his sitting position.
When he stood up from his prostrations (at the end of two rak'ahs), he raised his hands likewise and uttered the takbir (Allah is most great) and raised his hands so as to bring them up to his shoulders, as he uttered the takbir in the beginning of the prayer.
Position of arms
Prayer (Kitab Al-Salat): Details of Commencing Prayer
Dawud :: Book 3 : Hadith 758
Narrated Tawus:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) used to place his right hand on his left hand, then he folded them strictly on his chest in prayer.
Rokoo and sujood
Prayer (Kitab Al-Salat): Details of Commencing Prayer
Dawud :: Book 3 : Hadith 862
Narrated Uqbah ibn Amr al-Ansari:
Salim al-Barrad said: We came to AbuMas'ud Uqbah ibn Amr al-Ansari and said to him: Tell us about the prayer of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him).
He stood up before us in the mosque and said the takbir. When he bowed, he placed his hands upon his knees and put his fingers below, and kept his elbows (arms) away from his sides, so everything returned properly to its place. Then he said: "Allah listens to him who praises Him"; then he stood up so that everything returned properly to its place; then he said the takbir and prostrated and put the palms of his hands on the ground; he kept his elbow (arms) away from his sides, so that everything returned to its proper place. Then he raised his head and sat so that everything returned to its place; he then repeated it in a similar way. Then he offered four rak'ahs of prayer like this rak'ah and completed his prayer.
Then he said: Thus we witnessed the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) offering his prayer.
Prayer (Kitab Al-Salat): Details of Commencing Prayer
Dawud :: Book 3 : Hadith 869
Narrated Uqbah ibn Amir:
The above (No 868) tradition has also been reported through a different chain of narrators by Uqbah ibn Amir to the same effect. This version adds: When the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) bowed, he said: "Glory and praise be to my mighty Lord" three times, and when he prostrated himself, he said: "Glory and praise be to my most high Lord" three times.
Prayer
Malik :: Book 3 : Hadith 3.14.57
Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi that Abdullah ibn Umar used to say the tashahhud saying, "In the name of Allah. Greetings belong to Allah. Prayers belong to Allah. Pure actions belong to Allah. Peace be on the Prophet and the mercy of Allah and His blessings. Peace be on us and on the slaves of Allah who are salihun. I testify that there is no god except Allah. I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah."
"Bismillah, at-tahiyatu lillah, as-salawatu lillah, az-zakiyatu lillah. As-salamu ala'n-nabiyyi wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu. As-salamu alayna wa ala ibadi'llahi's-salihin. Shahidtu an la ilaha illallah. Shahidtu anna Muhammadu'r-rasulu'llah."
He used to say this after the first two rakas and he would make supplication with whatever seemed fit to him when the tashahhud was completed. When he sat at the end of the prayer, he did the tashahhud in a similar manner, except that after the tashahhud he made supplication with whatever seemed fit to him. When he had completed the tashahhud and intended to say the taslim, he said, "Peace be on the Prophet and His mercy and blessings. Peace be upon us and on the slaves of Allah who are salihun."
"As-salamu ala'n-nabiyyi wa rahmatu'llahi wa barakatuhu. As-salamu alayna wa ala ibadi'llahi'ssalihin ."
He then said, "Peace be upon you" to his right, and would return the greeting to the imam, and if anyone said "Peace be upon you" from his left he would return the greeting to him.
Shortening the Prayer
Malik :: Book 9 : Hadith 9.22.70
Yahya related to me from Malik from Nuaym ibn Abdullah al-Mujmirthat Muhammad ibn Abdullah ibn Zayd told him that Abu Masud al Ansari said, "The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, came to us at the gathering of Sad ibn Ubada. Bashir ibn Sad said to him, 'Allah has ordered us to ask for blessings on you, Messenger of Allah. How should we do it?' The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, remained silent until we wished we had not asked him. Then he told us to say, 'O Allah, bless Muhammad and the family of Muhammad as You blessed Ibrahim, and give baraka to Muhammad and the family of Muhammad as You gave baraka to the family of Ibrahim. In all the worlds You are worthy of Praise and Glorious,' and then give the taslim as you have learnt."
Allahumma salli ala Muhammad wa ali Muhammad kama sallaita Ibrahim, wa baraka ala Muhammad wa ali Muhammad kama baraktaala ali Ibrahim. Fi'l alamin, innaka Hamidu'm - Majid.
Prayer
Malik :: Book 3 : Hadith 3.13.51
Yahya related to me from Malik from Muslim ibn Abi Maryam that AIi ibn Abd ar-Rahman al-Muawi said, "Abdullah ibn Umar saw me playing with some small pebbles in the prayer. When I finished he forbade me, saying, 'Do as the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, did.' I said, 'What did the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, do?' He said, 'When he sat in the prayer, he placed his right hand on his right thigh and he closed his fist and pointed his index finger, and he placed his left hand on his left thigh. That is what he used to do.' "
i am giving reference cos , this is a very big issue and more over i have given you few references
Quote:
On the other hand the Quran clearly told us that the rememberance of Allah is bigger than Salat, therefore even with those who never pray for whatever reason but remeber Allah every second in their day, according to the Quran they are pious people
perfectly correct , dear ahmed
see , you are going to contradict this thing in this post itself
Quote:
Well, Islam is only a religion according to the Quran, however if you want to consider a system, then yes it is a system of worshipping Allah alone and not shirking A THING with Him.
see ,you have contradicted you self here , dear ahmed
did quran ever said , remembreing ALLAH means ,just sit under a banyan tree and say "ALLAH .....ALLAH ....ALLAH"
do you mean to say this type of rememberence . dear ahmed
now ,
just imagine a system
where , we do business in ALLAH's way
we respect our neighbors in ALLAH's way
we are tolerant towards other religion in ALLAH's way
i can list , above are few
if transgressing above things are considered as crime ,then tell me are we not remembering ALLAH everyday 24x7
or do you think quran is not adequate to take it as a system
this is the remembrance which quran is teaching dear ahmed
Quote:
Who said so?, Islam is submitting to Allah alone and this can only happen through the Quran alone
ofcourse ,
you are right again
Quote:
That is total BS, if you want to make it explicit to the Quran, because the Torah was also described the same as the Quran, a guidance and a mercy to the people, that is if they only hold it alone and not shirking man made crap with it
of course dear ahmed , that is what quran says about torah too
006.154
YUSUFALI: Moreover, We gave Moses the Book, completing (Our favour) to those who would do right, and explaining all things in detail,- and a guide and a mercy, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord.
did ever in quran did ALLAH said , he has send a new book
Quote:
Fuk the economic system that the hypocrite Muslims invented, for me the economy of Islam is simply, NO RIBAH, as simple as that, your Muslim economists on the other hand are hypocrites because they take RIBAH disguised under other names to make it sort of not haram
again , ahmed , you are doing the same mistake as they did , quran goes beyond that
002.276
YUSUFALI: Allah will deprive usury of all blessing, but will give increase for deeds of charity: For He loveth not creatures ungrateful and wicked.
i think , riba should be replaced with charity
i know you will laugh at me , but i view this is the illat of this ayah
cos
002.278
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Fear Allah, and give up what remains of your demand for usury, if ye are indeed believers.
02.280
YUSUFALI: If the debtor is in a difficulty, grant him time Till it is easy for him to repay. But if ye remit it by way of charity, that is best for you if ye only knew.
see the beauty of quran
can we have such a system
i think i am off the topic
Quote:
Not for me, Islam is submitting to Allah alone while not shirking A THING with Him
yes , submitting to ALLAH is by adopting the system from quran
Quote:
...I do noot pay Zakat because there is not proper government to pay it for, however I pay Sadaqat
even here we don't have Islamic government , but i pay to the needy
Quote:
Not sure what you mean?, I read the Quran all the times since I was 14 years old, then got deep into it when I was 21, then got deeper and deeper into it when I was 35, I never found any difficulties understanding a law, otr a moral of a story that is mentioned in there, I never needed the hadith, however I admit that I needed a dictionary to understand indvidual words, but that was rare, I guess due to the fact that I was very good in Arabic at the age of 12 was a great encouragment for me to do it on my own, no need for sheikhs, ulamaa, muftis and mullahs
but dear , concentrate on illat and hikma of the ayah
with regards
Mushtaq
Salam bro
First of all, after going quickly through your wrtings and realizing your shifty and disrespectful way of calling us fake, I decided to totally ignore your crap, I can with ease turn it to shreds and expose your ignorance big times, however I will save you the hassle and salvage my time for those who are worthet to reply, too, see you are a clear cut coward, because you are a member on my forum and you never replied to the disgustnig crap from you associate Bukhari and his likes, you are as brainwashed as the confused christians and their likes, nothing really new, a typical Mushrik who is not happy with Allah judgment alone.
Anyway, my final message to you is Allah will judge between us in which we have differed
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
parvez mushtaq wrote:
Ahmed , i don't know why your so much hot tempered , be cool
i think ,we can talk even with out "idiot" , "fool"..or crap like that
my question is , will you keep your left hand over your right hand ahmed
mushtaq
Tough luck pal, you have been classified as clear cut enemy to my great religion, therefore this is how I will always call you, on the other hand you can call me the same or worse, I really careless, now if you waive your right to call me so, I won't waive mine, tough luck, this is life in year 2009
Now let me start with the first slam, unfortunatley for you, it is another mother of all slams
Salam all
One of the new hadith worshippers on FFI has presented the following argument to me:
parvez mushtaq wrote:
Surah: 4 Aya: 113
And if it was not for the favor of Allah upon you, [O Muhammad], and His mercy, a group of them would have determined to mislead you. But they do not mislead except themselves, and they will not harm you at all. And Allah has revealed to you the Book andwisdom and has taught you that which you did not know. And ever has the favor of Allah upon you been great.
Surah: 62 Aya: 2
It is He who has sent among the unlettered a Messenger from themselves reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book and wisdom - although they were before in clear error -
what is the hikma here dear , the book is ok it is quran and what about hikma
mushtaq
As you can see that he brought in two verses stating that Allah revealed to Mohammed the book, the wisdom and other things that Mohammed did not know
Firstly, I have no problem accepting that the things that Mohammed did not know to be something like how to pray, or any other thing that is related to the religion of Allah one way or another, so let�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s leave such item out of the three aside for now
The issue we have in hand is the Book and the Hikmah, mister pervez is asking me to define what Hikmah is, I guess he thinks that the Hikmah is what is found in the man made crap books of hadith, like the prophet fuking his wives one after the other without having a bath in between, or like the prophet approaching his wives for sexual foreplay through their top half while they have the periods,
Well, let me tell such ignorant of a hadith worshipper, that I am not going to define the Hikmah mentioned in these two verses, I WILL LET THE QURAN DEFINE IT FOR HIM, which should be enough to make such hadith worshipper dismiss himself:
I brought 18 verses from sura no 17, in the first 17 verses Allah will give us at least 17 examples of Hikmah, what a coincidence, then in the 18th verse He will tell us that what He just told us is what Allah revealed to Mohammed of the Hikmah, let�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s walk through:
22- Do not make with Allah any other god, lest you sit down condemned, neglected.
23- And your Lord has decreed that you serve not except Him, and kindness to the parents, wether one or both of them reach old age with you, and say not to them: Uff and do not insult them, and say to them an honourable saying.
24- And lower to them the wing of humility out of mercy, and say: My Lord! Have mercy upon them, as they raised me up (when I was ) little.
25- Your Lord knows best what is within yourselves; if you are pious, then He is to those who turn (to Him) Forgiving.
26- And give to the relative his right, and (to) the needy and the traveller, and do not waste (your money) wastefully.
27- Indeed, those who waste (their money) are the brothers of the devils and the devil is, to his Lord, unbeliever.
28- And if you turn away from them seeking mercy from your Lord, which you desire, then say to them a gentle saying.
29- And do not make your hand shackled to your neck, and do not stretch it all the stretch, lest you sit down blamed, insolvent.
30- Indeed, your Lord stretches the provision for whom He wills and He restricts (it); indeed, He is of His servants Acquainted, Seeing.
31- And do not kill your children fearing poverty; We provide for them and yourselves; indeed, their killing is a great mistake.
32- And go not near adultery; indeed, it is an indecency and an evil way.
33- And kill not the soul which Allah has forbidden, except with right, and whoever is killed unjustly, We have made to his guardian (heir) an authority, so let him not exceed the (right of) killing; indeed, he is helped.
34- And go not near to the money of the orphan except in a way that is best till he reaches his strength and fulfil the covenant; indeed the covenant shall be questioned.
35- And give full measure when you measure, and weigh with a straight balance; that is good and a better determination.
36- And cause not (others) to follow that of which you have no knowledge; indeed, the hearing and the vision and the heart, about all of these, you shall be questioned.
37- And do not walk on the earth exultantly, indeed, you will not pierce the earth nor reach the mountains in length.
38- All that is ever evil, with your Lord, (and) hated.
39- That is of what your Lord has revealed to you of the wisdom, and do not make with Allah another god, lest you be thrown into hell, blamed, rejected. [The Quran ; 17:22-39]
لَا تَجْعَلْ مَعَ اللَّهِ إِلَٰهًا آخَرَ فَتَقْعُدَ مَذْمُومًا مَخْذُولًا (22)
وَقَضَىٰ رَبُّكَ أَلَّا تَعْبُدُوا إِلَّا إِيَّاهُ وَبِالْوَالِدَيْنِ إِحْسَانًا ۚ إِمَّا يَبْلُغَنَّ عِنْدَكَ الْكِبَرَ أَحَدُهُمَا أَوْ كِلَاهُمَا فَلَا تَقُلْ لَهُمَا أُفٍّ وَلَا تَنْهَرْهُمَا وَقُلْ لَهُمَا قَوْلًا كَرِيمًا (23)
وَاخْفِضْ لَهُمَا جَنَاحَ الذُّلِّ مِنَ الرَّحْمَةِ وَقُلْ رَبِّ ارْحَمْهُمَا كَمَا رَبَّيَانِي صَغِيرًا (24)
رَبُّكُمْ أَعْلَمُ بِمَا فِي نُفُوسِكُمْ ۚ إِنْ تَكُونُوا صَالِحِينَ فَإِنَّهُ كَانَ لِلْأَوَّابِينَ غَفُورًا (25)
وَآتِ ذَا الْقُرْبَىٰ حَقَّهُ وَالْمِسْكِينَ وَابْنَ السَّبِيلِ وَلَا تُبَذِّرْ تَبْذِيرًا (26)
إِنَّ الْمُبَذِّرِينَ كَانُوا إِخْوَانَ الشَّيَاطِينِ ۖ وَكَانَ الشَّيْطَانُ لِرَبِّهِ كَفُورًا (27)
وَإِمَّا تُعْرِضَنَّ عَنْهُمُ ابْتِغَاءَ رَحْمَةٍ مِنْ رَبِّكَ تَرْجُوهَا فَقُلْ لَهُمْ قَوْلًا مَيْسُورًا (28)
وَلَا تَجْعَلْ يَدَكَ مَغْلُولَةً إِلَىٰ عُنُقِكَ وَلَا تَبْسُطْهَا كُلَّ الْبَسْطِ فَتَقْعُدَ مَلُومًا مَحْسُورًا (29)
إِنَّ رَبَّكَ يَبْسُطُ الرِّزْقَ لِمَنْ يَشَاءُ وَيَقْدِرُ ۚ إِنَّهُ كَانَ بِعِبَادِهِ خَبِيرًا بَصِيرًا (30)
وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا أَوْلَادَكُمْ خَشْيَةَ إِمْلَاقٍ ۖ نَحْنُ نَرْزُقُهُمْ وَإِيَّاكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ قَتْلَهُمْ كَانَ خِطْئًا كَبِيرًا (31)
وَلَا تَقْرَبُوا الزِّنَا ۖ إِنَّهُ كَانَ فَاحِشَةً وَسَاءَ سَبِيلًا (32)
وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ إِلَّا بِالْحَقِّ ۗ وَمَنْ قُتِلَ مَظْلُومًا فَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا لِوَلِيِّهِ سُلْطَانًا فَلَا يُسْرِفْ فِي الْقَتْلِ ۖ إِنَّهُ كَانَ مَنْصُورًا (33)
وَلَا تَقْرَبُوا مَالَ الْيَتِيمِ إِلَّا بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ حَتَّىٰ يَبْلُغَ أَشُدَّهُ ۚ وَأَوْفُوا بِالْعَهْدِ ۖ إِنَّ الْعَهْدَ كَانَ مَسْئُولًا (34)
وَأَوْفُوا الْكَيْلَ إِذَا كِلْتُمْ وَزِنُوا بِالْقِسْطَاسِ الْمُسْتَقِيمِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا (35)
وَلَا تَقْفُ مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِهِ عِلْمٌ ۚ إِنَّ السَّمْعَ وَالْبَصَرَ وَالْفُؤَادَ كُلُّ أُولَٰئِكَ كَانَ عَنْهُ مَسْئُولًا (36)
وَلَا تَمْشِ فِي الْأَرْضِ مَرَحًا ۖ إِنَّكَ لَنْ تَخْرِقَ الْأَرْضَ وَلَنْ تَبْلُغَ الْجِبَالَ طُولًا (37)
كُلُّ ذَٰلِكَ كَانَ سَيِّئُهُ عِنْدَ رَبِّكَ مَكْرُوهًا (38)
ذَٰلِكَ مِمَّا أَوْحَىٰ إِلَيْكَ رَبُّكَ مِنَ الْحِكْمَةِ ۗ وَلَا تَجْعَلْ مَعَ اللَّهِ إِلَٰهًا آخَرَ فَتُلْقَىٰ فِي جَهَنَّمَ مَلُومًا مَدْحُورًا (39)
-> Verse 17:22, here is the first Hikmah: Do not make with Allah any other god, lest you sit down condemned, neglected.
-> Verse 17:23, Hikamh # 2 And your Lord has decreed that you serve not except Him, and kindness to the parents, wether one or both of them reach old age with you, and say not to them: Uff and do not insult them, and say to them an honourable saying.
-> Verse 17:24, Hikmah # 3 And lower to them the wing of humility out of mercy, and say: My Lord! Have mercy upon them, as they raised me up (when I was ) little.
-> Verse 17:25, Hikmah # 4 Your Lord knows best what is within yourselves; if you are pious, then He is to those who turn (to Him) Forgiving.
-> Verse 17:26, Hikmah # 5 And give to the relative his right, and (to) the needy and the traveller, and do not waste (your money) wastefully.
-> Verse 17:27, Hikmah # 6 Indeed, those who waste (their money) are the brothers of the devils and the devil is, to his Lord, unbeliever.
-> Verse 17:28, Hikmah # 7 And if you turn away from them seeking mercy from your Lord, which you desire, then say to them a gentle saying.
-> Verse 17:29, Hikmah # 8 And do not make your hand shackled to your neck, and do not stretch it all the stretch, lest you sit down blamed, insolvent.
-> Verse 17:30, Hikmah # 9 Indeed, your Lord stretches the provision for whom He wills and He restricts (it); indeed, He is of His servants Acquainted, Seeing.
-> Verse 17:31, Hikmah # 10 And do not kill your children fearing poverty; We provide for them and yourselves; indeed, their killing is a great mistake.
-> Verse 17:32, Hikmah # 11 And go not near adultery; indeed, it is an indecency and an evil way.
-> Verse 17:33, Hikmah # 12 And kill not the soul which Allah has forbidden, except with right, and whoever is killed unjustly, We have made to his guardian (heir) an authority, so let him not exceed the (right of) killing; indeed, he is helped.
-> Verse 17:34, Hikmah # 13 And go not near to the money of the orphan except in a way that is best till he reaches his strength and fulfil the covenant; indeed the covenant shall be questioned.
-> Verse 17:35, Hikmah # 14 And give full measure when you measure, and weigh with a straight balance; that is good and a better determination.
-> Verse 17:36, Hikmah # 15 And cause not (others) to follow that of which you have no knowledge; indeed, the hearing and the vision and the heart, about all of these, you shall be questioned.
-> Verse 17:37, Hikmah # 16 And do not walk on the earth exultantly, indeed, you will not pierce the earth nor reach the mountains in length.
-> Verse 17:38, Hikmah # 17 All that is ever evil, with your Lord, (and) hated.
-> Verse 17:39, AND HERE IS HOW ALLAH IS TELLING US THAT THE ABOVE 17 VERSE FROM SURA 17 ARE EXAMPLES OF WHAT ALLAH REVEALED TO MOHAMMED OF HIKMAH ذَٰلِكَ مِمَّا أَوْحَىٰ إِلَيْكَ رَبُّكَ مِنَ الْحِكْمَةِ, Zalika Mimma Awha Ilaika Rabuka MIN AL-HIKMAH , That is of what your Lord has revealed to you of the wisdom,, can you see that after Allah defined the HIKMAH for us, He ended verse 17:39 with repeating the same Hikmah mentioned in 17:22 and do not make with Allah another god, lest you be thrown into hell, blamed, rejected.
Here you have it, according to Allah Himself, His Hikmah that He revealed to Mohammed are the lessons and verses in the Quran
Another hadith worshipper of a Mushrik bites the dust
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Salam all
I made a Facebook version of the above comment, however I elaborated a bit in my introduction, so I will post it again in here, please be aware that part of the following comment is also posted above:
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In today�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s note, I will take the chance of a heated debate between myself and another Muslim whom I consider a Mushrik to show all what is Hikmah according to the Quran.
The guy name is Pervez Mushtaq, he is also a member of my web site, but it seems he was avoiding my solid arguments against the man made books of hadith in there and somehow he wanted to debate it on an anti islam site. My main argument that upholding these hadith books as a second source of finding guidance and wisdom in the religion, is a clear cut case of SHIRK, this is the main point to debate if Muslims really want to debate me, and the only way to refute me is to reply to the masses of crap, contradictions, allegations, lies, defamations and errors that are found in these man made books of hadith.
Attacking me personally cannot be considered a refute, especially that I support everything I say from the Quran and also from their man made books of hadith.
If others think that I interpret the Quran according to my desires , then saying so to me cannot be a refute, rather they need to show me how I interpreted the verses wrongly and according to my desires. Ironically, one of those who think that I manipulate the Quran verses is my own and dear mother, may Allah forgive her because she is yet to prove her allegation, proving it cannot be by saying so to me, she needs to conclusively show me and others where I did so and how.
That is why I am not mister nice guy any more when it comes to my religion, I had enough of 1200 years of religion abuse and shirk, (since the man made books of hadith were invented), I am going to be tough and even rude if required (with full awareness of my actions though) against all those Mushrik Muslims who would like to challenge me for the sake of the challenge and not for the sake of the truth that I worked hard for the last 10 years or so to shed light about it by using such sources most Muslims uphold.
Why I turned to be such aggressive, well, it is my counter defense after seeing many Muslims attacking me personally instead of attacking my arguments, therefore, for me the best method of defense is to attack, and I decided to spend the rest of my life attacking all those Sheikhs, Imams, Mullahs, Muftis and their followers, doing so for me, constitutes the best method of defending myself and my great religion after it was hijacked bys such people 1200 years ago and yet to be recovered.
Let me now get into today�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s note about Hikmah i.e. Wisdom
Once I had a debate with a Kafir who alleged that following the Quran alone cannot make the follower a Muslim, he was trying to validate the authority of the man made hadith, so he can attack the Muslims upholding it, through the so many crap these man made books have, I actually posted this debate on Facebook, here is a link, in which the kafir conceded to my arguments:
The above debate happened on the famous anti Islam site www.faithfreedom.org which is run by Dr Ali Sina, an Iranian who claims to be an Ex-Muslim
On that debate, the Muslim who is the subject of this note Pervez Mushtaq, cheered for my very strong arguments against the Kafir, later on (last 10 days to be exact), I posted a note on such site that is titled Quran Alone, the note was simply showing the enemy of Islam what made Cat Stevens (a very popular singer in the seventies) to be a Muslim, it was the words by Cat Stevens himself after been asked by a reporter from CNN, in which Cat Stevens said, that he believed in Islam after looking at its only source (the Quran) while ignoring all those so called religious people standing over his shoulder.
You can read what Cat Stevens (Currently known as Yusuf Islam) said on CNN in this link:
His words sounded great to me, especially it confirms the following Quran verse:
45:6 These are the signs of Allah which We recite to you with truth; then in what HADITH would they believe after Allah and His signs?
45:6 تلك ايات الله نتلوها عليك بالحق فباي حديث بعد الله واياته يؤمنون
I.e. only the HADITH of Allah (the Quran) can make others believe, not the hadith of Bukhari Springer crap
The example of Yusuf Islam is clear
Ironically the Muslim Pervez Mushtaq came on the attack, which really confused me and made me puzzled, how come he cheers for me in my debate defending the notion of Quran Alone against a Kafir, yet he comes and attack the same notion Quran Alone a few weeks later? Sounds like one of those many clear cut confused Muslims.
Of course, I stepped up my attack against such Muslim, the moment anyone attacks the Quran Alone notion, is the moment when such one will be classified as a clear cut enemy of my religion, and consequently he or she must be dealt with as an enemy, I am not out there to bloody charm the Muslims to believe in what they should believe, it is all written in the Quran and they should know it themselves, I am out there exposing such fools of Muslims without mercy or any fear nor retreat of this very tough mission I chose to dedicate a great part of the rest of my life for, it is like I chose to be hated by at least 1 billion humans, however I learnt from the Quran to only fear Allah, I have learnt not to fear the people, therefore I will continue on my mission using the principles I designed for the task, and I will not care if most people see me as one who has gone astray, I�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??d rather follow what my heart, soul and mind tell me than following the majority of the people while only based on the flawed notion that it is unlikely that all these people are wrong, yet for the Muslims, all those Christians are flawed and wrong, again dear Muslims, why Satan is able to screw all the Christians and could not do that to all the Muslims? Please explain logically and with evidences from Quran, and while you are doing so, let me remind you with a verse from the Quran:
وَإِن تُطِعْ أَكْثَرَ مَن فِي الأَرْضِ يُضِلُّوكَ عَن سَبِيلِ اللّهِ إِن يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلاَّ الظَّنَّ وَإِنْ هُمْ إِلاَّ يَخْرُصُونَ (116)
And if you obey most of those in the earth, they will lead you astray from way of Allah; indeed they do not follow but conjecture and indeed they are only mute. [Al Quran ; 6:116]
-] How clear, I guess 6:116 confirms my notion to follow what my heart, soul and mind tell me, not what most of the people say, because according to 6:116, if I obey most of those on earth, they will lead me astray from the way of Allah.
Now, let me go back to our main note today, What is Hikmah exactly?
Let�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s see how this part was debated between myself and Pervez Mushtaq:
One of the new hadith worshippers on www.faithfreedom.org has presented the following argument to me:
Parvez Mushtaq said to Ahmed:
Surah: 4 Aya: 113
And if it was not for the favor of Allah upon you, [O Muhammad], and His mercy, a group of them would have determined to mislead you. But they do not mislead except themselves, and they will not harm you at all. And Allah has revealed to you the Book andwisdom and has taught you that which you did not know. And ever has the favor of Allah upon you been great.
Surah: 62 Aya: 2
It is He who has sent among the unlettered a Messenger from themselves reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book and wisdom - although they were before in clear error -
what is the hikma here dear , the book is ok it is quran and what about hikma
mushtaq
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Ahmed says:
As you can see that he brought in two verses stating that Allah revealed to Mohammed the book, the wisdom and other things that Mohammed did not know
Firstly, I have no problem accepting that the things that Mohammed did not know to be something like how to pray, or any other thing that is related to the religion of Allah one way or another, so let�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s leave such item (things that Mohammed did not know) out of the three items aside for now
The issue we have in hand is the Book and the Hikmah, mister pervez is asking me to define what Hikmah is, I guess he thinks that the Hikmah is what is found in the man made crap books of hadith, like the prophet fuking his wives one after the other without having a bath in between, or like the prophet approaching his wives for sexual foreplay through their top half while they have the periods.
Well, let me tell such ignorant of a hadith worshipper, that I am not going to define the Hikmah mentioned in these two verses, I WILL LET THE QURAN DEFINES IT FOR HIM, which should be enough to make such hadith worshipper dismiss himself:
I brought 18 verses from sura no 17, in the first 17 verses, Allah will give us at least 17 examples of Hikmah, what a coincidence, then in the 18th verse He will tell us that what He just told us is what Allah revealed to Mohammed of the Hikmah, let�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s walk through:
22- Do not make with Allah any other god, lest you sit down condemned, neglected.
23- And your Lord has decreed that you serve not except Him, and kindness to the parents, wether one or both of them reach old age with you, and say not to them: Uff and do not insult them, and say to them an honourable saying.
24- And lower to them the wing of humility out of mercy, and say: My Lord! Have mercy upon them, as they raised me up (when I was ) little.
25- Your Lord knows best what is within yourselves; if you are pious, then He is to those who turn (to Him) Forgiving.
26- And give to the relative his right, and (to) the needy and the traveller, and do not waste (your money) wastefully.
27- Indeed, those who waste (their money) are the brothers of the devils and the devil is, to his Lord, unbeliever.
28- And if you turn away from them seeking mercy from your Lord, which you desire, then say to them a gentle saying.
29- And do not make your hand shackled to your neck, and do not stretch it all the stretch, lest you sit down blamed, insolvent.
30- Indeed, your Lord stretches the provision for whom He wills and He restricts (it); indeed, He is of His servants Acquainted, Seeing.
31- And do not kill your children fearing poverty; We provide for them and yourselves; indeed, their killing is a great mistake.
32- And go not near adultery; indeed, it is an indecency and an evil way.
33- And kill not the soul which Allah has forbidden, except with right, and whoever is killed unjustly, We have made to his guardian (heir) an authority, so let him not exceed the (right of) killing; indeed, he is helped.
34- And go not near to the money of the orphan except in a way that is best till he reaches his strength and fulfil the covenant; indeed the covenant shall be questioned.
35- And give full measure when you measure, and weigh with a straight balance; that is good and a better determination.
36- And cause not (others) to follow that of which you have no knowledge; indeed, the hearing and the vision and the heart, about all of these, you shall be questioned.
37- And do not walk on the earth exultantly, indeed, you will not pierce the earth nor reach the mountains in length.
38- All that is ever evil, with your Lord, (and) hated.
39- That is of what your Lord has revealed to you of the wisdom, and do not make with Allah another god, lest you be thrown into hell, blamed, rejected. [The Quran ; 17:22-39]
لَا تَجْعَلْ مَعَ اللَّهِ إِلَٰهًا آخَرَ فَتَقْعُدَ مَذْمُومًا مَخْذُولًا (22)
وَقَضَىٰ رَبُّكَ أَلَّا تَعْبُدُوا إِلَّا إِيَّاهُ وَبِالْوَالِدَيْنِ إِحْسَانًا ۚ إِمَّا يَبْلُغَنَّ عِنْدَكَ الْكِبَرَ أَحَدُهُمَا أَوْ كِلَاهُمَا فَلَا تَقُلْ لَهُمَا أُفٍّ وَلَا تَنْهَرْهُمَا وَقُلْ لَهُمَا قَوْلًا كَرِيمًا (23)
وَاخْفِضْ لَهُمَا جَنَاحَ الذُّلِّ مِنَ الرَّحْمَةِ وَقُلْ رَبِّ ارْحَمْهُمَا كَمَا رَبَّيَانِي صَغِيرًا (24)
رَبُّكُمْ أَعْلَمُ بِمَا فِي نُفُوسِكُمْ ۚ إِنْ تَكُونُوا صَالِحِينَ فَإِنَّهُ كَانَ لِلْأَوَّابِينَ غَفُورًا (25)
وَآتِ ذَا الْقُرْبَىٰ حَقَّهُ وَالْمِسْكِينَ وَابْنَ السَّبِيلِ وَلَا تُبَذِّرْ تَبْذِيرًا (26)
إِنَّ الْمُبَذِّرِينَ كَانُوا إِخْوَانَ الشَّيَاطِينِ ۖ وَكَانَ الشَّيْطَانُ لِرَبِّهِ كَفُورًا (27)
وَإِمَّا تُعْرِضَنَّ عَنْهُمُ ابْتِغَاءَ رَحْمَةٍ مِنْ رَبِّكَ تَرْجُوهَا فَقُلْ لَهُمْ قَوْلًا مَيْسُورًا (28)
وَلَا تَجْعَلْ يَدَكَ مَغْلُولَةً إِلَىٰ عُنُقِكَ وَلَا تَبْسُطْهَا كُلَّ الْبَسْطِ فَتَقْعُدَ مَلُومًا مَحْسُورًا (29)
إِنَّ رَبَّكَ يَبْسُطُ الرِّزْقَ لِمَنْ يَشَاءُ وَيَقْدِرُ ۚ إِنَّهُ كَانَ بِعِبَادِهِ خَبِيرًا بَصِيرًا (30)
وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا أَوْلَادَكُمْ خَشْيَةَ إِمْلَاقٍ ۖ نَحْنُ نَرْزُقُهُمْ وَإِيَّاكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ قَتْلَهُمْ كَانَ خِطْئًا كَبِيرًا (31)
وَلَا تَقْرَبُوا الزِّنَا ۖ إِنَّهُ كَانَ فَاحِشَةً وَسَاءَ سَبِيلًا (32)
وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ إِلَّا بِالْحَقِّ ۗ وَمَنْ قُتِلَ مَظْلُومًا فَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا لِوَلِيِّهِ سُلْطَانًا فَلَا يُسْرِفْ فِي الْقَتْلِ ۖ إِنَّهُ كَانَ مَنْصُورًا (33)
وَلَا تَقْرَبُوا مَالَ الْيَتِيمِ إِلَّا بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ حَتَّىٰ يَبْلُغَ أَشُدَّهُ ۚ وَأَوْفُوا بِالْعَهْدِ ۖ إِنَّ الْعَهْدَ كَانَ مَسْئُولًا (34)
وَأَوْفُوا الْكَيْلَ إِذَا كِلْتُمْ وَزِنُوا بِالْقِسْطَاسِ الْمُسْتَقِيمِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا (35)
وَلَا تَقْفُ مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِهِ عِلْمٌ ۚ إِنَّ السَّمْعَ وَالْبَصَرَ وَالْفُؤَادَ كُلُّ أُولَٰئِكَ كَانَ عَنْهُ مَسْئُولًا (36)
وَلَا تَمْشِ فِي الْأَرْضِ مَرَحًا ۖ إِنَّكَ لَنْ تَخْرِقَ الْأَرْضَ وَلَنْ تَبْلُغَ الْجِبَالَ طُولًا (37)
كُلُّ ذَٰلِكَ كَانَ سَيِّئُهُ عِنْدَ رَبِّكَ مَكْرُوهًا (38)
ذَٰلِكَ مِمَّا أَوْحَىٰ إِلَيْكَ رَبُّكَ مِنَ الْحِكْمَةِ ۗ وَلَا تَجْعَلْ مَعَ اللَّهِ إِلَٰهًا آخَرَ فَتُلْقَىٰ فِي جَهَنَّمَ مَلُومًا مَدْحُورًا (39)
-] Verse 17:22, here is the first Hikmah: Do not make with Allah any other god, lest you sit down condemned, neglected.
-] Verse 17:23, Hikamh # 2 And your Lord has decreed that you serve not except Him, and kindness to the parents, wether one or both of them reach old age with you, and say not to them: Uff and do not insult them, and say to them an honourable saying.
-] Verse 17:24, Hikmah # 3 And lower to them the wing of humility out of mercy, and say: My Lord! Have mercy upon them, as they raised me up (when I was ) little.
-] Verse 17:25, Hikmah # 4 Your Lord knows best what is within yourselves; if you are pious, then He is to those who turn (to Him) Forgiving.
-] Verse 17:26, Hikmah # 5 And give to the relative his right, and (to) the needy and the traveller, and do not waste (your money) wastefully.
-] Verse 17:27, Hikmah # 6 Indeed, those who waste (their money) are the brothers of the devils and the devil is, to his Lord, unbeliever.
-] Verse 17:28, Hikmah # 7 And if you turn away from them seeking mercy from your Lord, which you desire, then say to them a gentle saying.
-] Verse 17:29, Hikmah # 8 And do not make your hand shackled to your neck, and do not stretch it all the stretch, lest you sit down blamed, insolvent.
-] Verse 17:30, Hikmah # 9 Indeed, your Lord stretches the provision for whom He wills and He restricts (it); indeed, He is of His servants Acquainted, Seeing.
-] Verse 17:31, Hikmah # 10 And do not kill your children fearing poverty; We provide for them and yourselves; indeed, their killing is a great mistake.
-] Verse 17:32, Hikmah # 11 And go not near adultery; indeed, it is an indecency and an evil way.
-] Verse 17:33, Hikmah # 12 And kill not the soul which Allah has forbidden, except with right, and whoever is killed unjustly, We have made to his guardian (heir) an authority, so let him not exceed the (right of) killing; indeed, he is helped.
-] Verse 17:34, Hikmah # 13 And go not near to the money of the orphan except in a way that is best till he reaches his strength and fulfil the covenant; indeed the covenant shall be questioned.
-] Verse 17:35, Hikmah # 14 And give full measure when you measure, and weigh with a straight balance; that is good and a better determination.
-] Verse 17:36, Hikmah # 15 And cause not (others) to follow that of which you have no knowledge; indeed, the hearing and the vision and the heart, about all of these, you shall be questioned.
-] Verse 17:37, Hikmah # 16 And do not walk on the earth exultantly, indeed, you will not pierce the earth nor reach the mountains in length.
-] Verse 17:38, Hikmah # 17 All that is ever evil, with your Lord, (and) hated.
-] Verse 17:39, AND HERE IS HOW ALLAH IS TELLING US THAT THE ABOVE 17 VERSE FROM SURA 17 ARE EXAMPLES OF WHAT ALLAH REVEALED TO MOHAMMED OF HIKMAH ذَٰلِكَ مِمَّا أَوْحَىٰ إِلَيْكَ رَبُّكَ مِنَ الْحِكْمَةِ, Zalika Mimma Awha Ilaika Rabuka MIN AL-HIKMAH , i.e. That is of what your Lord has revealed to you of the wisdom,, can you see that after Allah defined the HIKMAH for us, He ended verse 17:39 with repeating the same Hikmah mentioned in 17:22 and do not make with Allah another god, lest you be thrown into hell, blamed, rejected.
Here you have it, according to Allah Himself, His Hikmah that He revealed to Mohammed are the lessons and verses in the Quran
Another hadith worshipper of a Mushrik bites the dust
What a mother of all slam dunks, you can watch it in here
Status: Age: 76 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Jun 12, 2007
Posts: 614
Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Salam all
I made a Facebook version of the above comment, however I elaborated a bit in my introduction, so I will post it again in here, please be aware that part of the following comment is also posted above:
---------------------------------------
In today�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s note, I will take the chance of a heated debate between myself and another Muslim whom I consider a Mushrik to show all what is Hikmah according to the Quran.
The guy name is Pervez Mushtaq, he is also a member of my web site, but it seems he was avoiding my solid arguments against the man made books of hadith in there and somehow he wanted to debate it on an anti islam site. My main argument that upholding these hadith books as a second source of finding guidance and wisdom in the religion, is a clear cut case of SHIRK, this is the main point to debate if Muslims really want to debate me, and the only way to refute me is to reply to the masses of crap, contradictions, allegations, lies, defamations and errors that are found in these man made books of hadith.
Attacking me personally cannot be considered a refute, especially that I support everything I say from the Quran and also from their man made books of hadith.
If others think that I interpret the Quran according to my desires , then saying so to me cannot be a refute, rather they need to show me how I interpreted the verses wrongly and according to my desires. Ironically, one of those who think that I manipulate the Quran verses is my own and dear mother, may Allah forgive her because she is yet to prove her allegation, proving it cannot be by saying so to me, she needs to conclusively show me and others where I did so and how.
That is why I am not mister nice guy any more when it comes to my religion, I had enough of 1200 years of religion abuse and shirk, (since the man made books of hadith were invented), I am going to be tough and even rude if required (with full awareness of my actions though) against all those Mushrik Muslims who would like to challenge me for the sake of the challenge and not for the sake of the truth that I worked hard for the last 10 years or so to shed light about it by using such sources most Muslims uphold.
Why I turned to be such aggressive, well, it is my counter defense after seeing many Muslims attacking me personally instead of attacking my arguments, therefore, for me the best method of defense is to attack, and I decided to spend the rest of my life attacking all those Sheikhs, Imams, Mullahs, Muftis and their followers, doing so for me, constitutes the best method of defending myself and my great religion after it was hijacked bys such people 1200 years ago and yet to be recovered.
Let me now get into today�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s note about Hikmah i.e. Wisdom
Once I had a debate with a Kafir who alleged that following the Quran alone cannot make the follower a Muslim, he was trying to validate the authority of the man made hadith, so he can attack the Muslims upholding it, through the so many crap these man made books have, I actually posted this debate on Facebook, here is a link, in which the kafir conceded to my arguments:
The above debate happened on the famous anti Islam site www.faithfreedom.org which is run by Dr Ali Sina, an Iranian who claims to be an Ex-Muslim
On that debate, the Muslim who is the subject of this note Pervez Mushtaq, cheered for my very strong arguments against the Kafir, later on (last 10 days to be exact), I posted a note on such site that is titled Quran Alone, the note was simply showing the enemy of Islam what made Cat Stevens (a very popular singer in the seventies) to be a Muslim, it was the words by Cat Stevens himself after been asked by a reporter from CNN, in which Cat Stevens said, that he believed in Islam after looking at its only source (the Quran) while ignoring all those so called religious people standing over his shoulder.
You can read what Cat Stevens (Currently known as Yusuf Islam) said on CNN in this link:
His words sounded great to me, especially it confirms the following Quran verse:
45:6 These are the signs of Allah which We recite to you with truth; then in what HADITH would they believe after Allah and His signs?
45:6 تلك ايات الله نتلوها عليك بالحق فباي حديث بعد الله واياته يؤمنون
I.e. only the HADITH of Allah (the Quran) can make others believe, not the hadith of Bukhari Springer crap
The example of Yusuf Islam is clear
Ironically the Muslim Pervez Mushtaq came on the attack, which really confused me and made me puzzled, how come he cheers for me in my debate defending the notion of Quran Alone against a Kafir, yet he comes and attack the same notion Quran Alone a few weeks later? Sounds like one of those many clear cut confused Muslims.
Of course, I stepped up my attack against such Muslim, the moment anyone attacks the Quran Alone notion, is the moment when such one will be classified as a clear cut enemy of my religion, and consequently he or she must be dealt with as an enemy, I am not out there to bloody charm the Muslims to believe in what they should believe, it is all written in the Quran and they should know it themselves, I am out there exposing such fools of Muslims without mercy or any fear nor retreat of this very tough mission I chose to dedicate a great part of the rest of my life for, it is like I chose to be hated by at least 1 billion humans, however I learnt from the Quran to only fear Allah, I have learnt not to fear the people, therefore I will continue on my mission using the principles I designed for the task, and I will not care if most people see me as one who has gone astray, I�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??d rather follow what my heart, soul and mind tell me than following the majority of the people while only based on the flawed notion that it is unlikely that all these people are wrong, yet for the Muslims, all those Christians are flawed and wrong, again dear Muslims, why Satan is able to screw all the Christians and could not do that to all the Muslims? Please explain logically and with evidences from Quran, and while you are doing so, let me remind you with a verse from the Quran:
وَإِن تُطِعْ أَكْثَرَ مَن فِي الأَرْضِ يُضِلُّوكَ عَن سَبِيلِ اللّهِ إِن يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلاَّ الظَّنَّ وَإِنْ هُمْ إِلاَّ يَخْرُصُونَ (116)
And if you obey most of those in the earth, they will lead you astray from way of Allah; indeed they do not follow but conjecture and indeed they are only mute. [Al Quran ; 6:116]
-] How clear, I guess 6:116 confirms my notion to follow what my heart, soul and mind tell me, not what most of the people say, because according to 6:116, if I obey most of those on earth, they will lead me astray from the way of Allah.
Now, let me go back to our main note today, What is Hikmah exactly?
Let�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s see how this part was debated between myself and Pervez Mushtaq:
One of the new hadith worshippers on www.faithfreedom.org has presented the following argument to me:
Parvez Mushtaq said to Ahmed:
Surah: 4 Aya: 113
And if it was not for the favor of Allah upon you, [O Muhammad], and His mercy, a group of them would have determined to mislead you. But they do not mislead except themselves, and they will not harm you at all. And Allah has revealed to you the Book andwisdom and has taught you that which you did not know. And ever has the favor of Allah upon you been great.
Surah: 62 Aya: 2
It is He who has sent among the unlettered a Messenger from themselves reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book and wisdom - although they were before in clear error -
what is the hikma here dear , the book is ok it is quran and what about hikma
mushtaq
-------------------------
Ahmed says:
As you can see that he brought in two verses stating that Allah revealed to Mohammed the book, the wisdom and other things that Mohammed did not know
Firstly, I have no problem accepting that the things that Mohammed did not know to be something like how to pray, or any other thing that is related to the religion of Allah one way or another, so let�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s leave such item (things that Mohammed did not know) out of the three items aside for now
The issue we have in hand is the Book and the Hikmah, mister pervez is asking me to define what Hikmah is, I guess he thinks that the Hikmah is what is found in the man made crap books of hadith, like the prophet fuking his wives one after the other without having a bath in between, or like the prophet approaching his wives for sexual foreplay through their top half while they have the periods.
Well, let me tell such ignorant of a hadith worshipper, that I am not going to define the Hikmah mentioned in these two verses, I WILL LET THE QURAN DEFINES IT FOR HIM, which should be enough to make such hadith worshipper dismiss himself:
I brought 18 verses from sura no 17, in the first 17 verses, Allah will give us at least 17 examples of Hikmah, what a coincidence, then in the 18th verse He will tell us that what He just told us is what Allah revealed to Mohammed of the Hikmah, let�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s walk through:
22- Do not make with Allah any other god, lest you sit down condemned, neglected.
23- And your Lord has decreed that you serve not except Him, and kindness to the parents, wether one or both of them reach old age with you, and say not to them: Uff and do not insult them, and say to them an honourable saying.
24- And lower to them the wing of humility out of mercy, and say: My Lord! Have mercy upon them, as they raised me up (when I was ) little.
25- Your Lord knows best what is within yourselves; if you are pious, then He is to those who turn (to Him) Forgiving.
26- And give to the relative his right, and (to) the needy and the traveller, and do not waste (your money) wastefully.
27- Indeed, those who waste (their money) are the brothers of the devils and the devil is, to his Lord, unbeliever.
28- And if you turn away from them seeking mercy from your Lord, which you desire, then say to them a gentle saying.
29- And do not make your hand shackled to your neck, and do not stretch it all the stretch, lest you sit down blamed, insolvent.
30- Indeed, your Lord stretches the provision for whom He wills and He restricts (it); indeed, He is of His servants Acquainted, Seeing.
31- And do not kill your children fearing poverty; We provide for them and yourselves; indeed, their killing is a great mistake.
32- And go not near adultery; indeed, it is an indecency and an evil way.
33- And kill not the soul which Allah has forbidden, except with right, and whoever is killed unjustly, We have made to his guardian (heir) an authority, so let him not exceed the (right of) killing; indeed, he is helped.
34- And go not near to the money of the orphan except in a way that is best till he reaches his strength and fulfil the covenant; indeed the covenant shall be questioned.
35- And give full measure when you measure, and weigh with a straight balance; that is good and a better determination.
36- And cause not (others) to follow that of which you have no knowledge; indeed, the hearing and the vision and the heart, about all of these, you shall be questioned.
37- And do not walk on the earth exultantly, indeed, you will not pierce the earth nor reach the mountains in length.
38- All that is ever evil, with your Lord, (and) hated.
39- That is of what your Lord has revealed to you of the wisdom, and do not make with Allah another god, lest you be thrown into hell, blamed, rejected. [The Quran ; 17:22-39]
لَا تَجْعَلْ مَعَ اللَّهِ إِلَٰهًا آخَرَ فَتَقْعُدَ مَذْمُومًا مَخْذُولًا (22)
وَقَضَىٰ رَبُّكَ أَلَّا تَعْبُدُوا إِلَّا إِيَّاهُ وَبِالْوَالِدَيْنِ إِحْسَانًا ۚ إِمَّا يَبْلُغَنَّ عِنْدَكَ الْكِبَرَ أَحَدُهُمَا أَوْ كِلَاهُمَا فَلَا تَقُلْ لَهُمَا أُفٍّ وَلَا تَنْهَرْهُمَا وَقُلْ لَهُمَا قَوْلًا كَرِيمًا (23)
وَاخْفِضْ لَهُمَا جَنَاحَ الذُّلِّ مِنَ الرَّحْمَةِ وَقُلْ رَبِّ ارْحَمْهُمَا كَمَا رَبَّيَانِي صَغِيرًا (24)
رَبُّكُمْ أَعْلَمُ بِمَا فِي نُفُوسِكُمْ ۚ إِنْ تَكُونُوا صَالِحِينَ فَإِنَّهُ كَانَ لِلْأَوَّابِينَ غَفُورًا (25)
وَآتِ ذَا الْقُرْبَىٰ حَقَّهُ وَالْمِسْكِينَ وَابْنَ السَّبِيلِ وَلَا تُبَذِّرْ تَبْذِيرًا (26)
إِنَّ الْمُبَذِّرِينَ كَانُوا إِخْوَانَ الشَّيَاطِينِ ۖ وَكَانَ الشَّيْطَانُ لِرَبِّهِ كَفُورًا (27)
وَإِمَّا تُعْرِضَنَّ عَنْهُمُ ابْتِغَاءَ رَحْمَةٍ مِنْ رَبِّكَ تَرْجُوهَا فَقُلْ لَهُمْ قَوْلًا مَيْسُورًا (2
وَلَا تَجْعَلْ يَدَكَ مَغْلُولَةً إِلَىٰ عُنُقِكَ وَلَا تَبْسُطْهَا كُلَّ الْبَسْطِ فَتَقْعُدَ مَلُومًا مَحْسُورًا (29)
إِنَّ رَبَّكَ يَبْسُطُ الرِّزْقَ لِمَنْ يَشَاءُ وَيَقْدِرُ ۚ إِنَّهُ كَانَ بِعِبَادِهِ خَبِيرًا بَصِيرًا (30)
وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا أَوْلَادَكُمْ خَشْيَةَ إِمْلَاقٍ ۖ نَحْنُ نَرْزُقُهُمْ وَإِيَّاكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ قَتْلَهُمْ كَانَ خِطْئًا كَبِيرًا (31)
وَلَا تَقْرَبُوا الزِّنَا ۖ إِنَّهُ كَانَ فَاحِشَةً وَسَاءَ سَبِيلًا (32)
وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ إِلَّا بِالْحَقِّ ۗ وَمَنْ قُتِلَ مَظْلُومًا فَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا لِوَلِيِّهِ سُلْطَانًا فَلَا يُسْرِفْ فِي الْقَتْلِ ۖ إِنَّهُ كَانَ مَنْصُورًا (33)
وَلَا تَقْرَبُوا مَالَ الْيَتِيمِ إِلَّا بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ حَتَّىٰ يَبْلُغَ أَشُدَّهُ ۚ وَأَوْفُوا بِالْعَهْدِ ۖ إِنَّ الْعَهْدَ كَانَ مَسْئُولًا (34)
وَأَوْفُوا الْكَيْلَ إِذَا كِلْتُمْ وَزِنُوا بِالْقِسْطَاسِ الْمُسْتَقِيمِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا (35)
وَلَا تَقْفُ مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِهِ عِلْمٌ ۚ إِنَّ السَّمْعَ وَالْبَصَرَ وَالْفُؤَادَ كُلُّ أُولَٰئِكَ كَانَ عَنْهُ مَسْئُولًا (36)
وَلَا تَمْشِ فِي الْأَرْضِ مَرَحًا ۖ إِنَّكَ لَنْ تَخْرِقَ الْأَرْضَ وَلَنْ تَبْلُغَ الْجِبَالَ طُولًا (37)
كُلُّ ذَٰلِكَ كَانَ سَيِّئُهُ عِنْدَ رَبِّكَ مَكْرُوهًا (3
ذَٰلِكَ مِمَّا أَوْحَىٰ إِلَيْكَ رَبُّكَ مِنَ الْحِكْمَةِ ۗ وَلَا تَجْعَلْ مَعَ اللَّهِ إِلَٰهًا آخَرَ فَتُلْقَىٰ فِي جَهَنَّمَ مَلُومًا مَدْحُورًا (39)
-] Verse 17:22, here is the first Hikmah: Do not make with Allah any other god, lest you sit down condemned, neglected.
-] Verse 17:23, Hikamh # 2 And your Lord has decreed that you serve not except Him, and kindness to the parents, wether one or both of them reach old age with you, and say not to them: Uff and do not insult them, and say to them an honourable saying.
-] Verse 17:24, Hikmah # 3 And lower to them the wing of humility out of mercy, and say: My Lord! Have mercy upon them, as they raised me up (when I was ) little.
-] Verse 17:25, Hikmah # 4 Your Lord knows best what is within yourselves; if you are pious, then He is to those who turn (to Him) Forgiving.
-] Verse 17:26, Hikmah # 5 And give to the relative his right, and (to) the needy and the traveller, and do not waste (your money) wastefully.
-] Verse 17:27, Hikmah # 6 Indeed, those who waste (their money) are the brothers of the devils and the devil is, to his Lord, unbeliever.
-] Verse 17:28, Hikmah # 7 And if you turn away from them seeking mercy from your Lord, which you desire, then say to them a gentle saying.
-] Verse 17:29, Hikmah # 8 And do not make your hand shackled to your neck, and do not stretch it all the stretch, lest you sit down blamed, insolvent.
-] Verse 17:30, Hikmah # 9 Indeed, your Lord stretches the provision for whom He wills and He restricts (it); indeed, He is of His servants Acquainted, Seeing.
-] Verse 17:31, Hikmah # 10 And do not kill your children fearing poverty; We provide for them and yourselves; indeed, their killing is a great mistake.
-] Verse 17:32, Hikmah # 11 And go not near adultery; indeed, it is an indecency and an evil way.
-] Verse 17:33, Hikmah # 12 And kill not the soul which Allah has forbidden, except with right, and whoever is killed unjustly, We have made to his guardian (heir) an authority, so let him not exceed the (right of) killing; indeed, he is helped.
-] Verse 17:34, Hikmah # 13 And go not near to the money of the orphan except in a way that is best till he reaches his strength and fulfil the covenant; indeed the covenant shall be questioned.
-] Verse 17:35, Hikmah # 14 And give full measure when you measure, and weigh with a straight balance; that is good and a better determination.
-] Verse 17:36, Hikmah # 15 And cause not (others) to follow that of which you have no knowledge; indeed, the hearing and the vision and the heart, about all of these, you shall be questioned.
-] Verse 17:37, Hikmah # 16 And do not walk on the earth exultantly, indeed, you will not pierce the earth nor reach the mountains in length.
-] Verse 17:38, Hikmah # 17 All that is ever evil, with your Lord, (and) hated.
-] Verse 17:39, AND HERE IS HOW ALLAH IS TELLING US THAT THE ABOVE 17 VERSE FROM SURA 17 ARE EXAMPLES OF WHAT ALLAH REVEALED TO MOHAMMED OF HIKMAH ذَٰلِكَ مِمَّا أَوْحَىٰ إِلَيْكَ رَبُّكَ مِنَ الْحِكْمَةِ, Zalika Mimma Awha Ilaika Rabuka MIN AL-HIKMAH , i.e. That is of what your Lord has revealed to you of the wisdom,, can you see that after Allah defined the HIKMAH for us, He ended verse 17:39 with repeating the same Hikmah mentioned in 17:22 and do not make with Allah another god, lest you be thrown into hell, blamed, rejected.
Here you have it, according to Allah Himself, His Hikmah that He revealed to Mohammed are the lessons and verses in the Quran
Another hadith worshipper of a Mushrik bites the dust
What a mother of all slam dunks, you can watch it in here
I have to write my own experience regarding hadith. As a young boy and a teenager, when I had no knowledge of Qur'aan, I would listen to all the ahaadith narrated but I used to reflect upon them. Some made sense but most did not make any.
However, I could not deny or refute or reject as I had no understanding or knowledge of qur'aan. But when I read, studied and learnt Qur'aan and the beautiful eloquent messages and guidance, given direct by Allah, I realised that Muslims should study and be made to study Qur'aan first.
Most of hadith lovers should go and read Qur'aan first and then examine each and every Hadith under the light and shade of Qur'aan.
Learning a lot of hadith but not knowing the message of Qur'aan, in my view, is a crime.
I don't know when our Muslim brothers and sisters will get rid of the phobia that they cannot reject ahaadith, which were neither given by Allah nor the Prophet.
When any person, who defends hadith more than Qur'aan, tells me that I am a "Qur'aan Only Muslim" (QOM), I reply, "Our dear Prophet, his companions, followers and the entire household were QOM.
Another point which the hadith lovers do not realise:
Thousands of people in Europe and America are embracing Islam only after reading simple translations of Qur'aan, not by reading ahaadith.
BMZ
Posted:
Sat 06 Jun, 2009 4:00 pm
parvez_mushtaq Pawn
Status: Age: 50 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 36
Post subject:
salams
Quote:
I have to write my own experience regarding hadith. As a young boy and a teenager, when I had no knowledge of Qur'aan, I would listen to all the ahaadith narrated but I used to reflect upon them. Some made sense but most did not make any.
the reality today is ,
read quran like a parrot
and follow hadith without knowledge, even without reading them , lol
Quote:
However, I could not deny or refute or reject as I had no understanding or knowledge of qur'aan. But when I read, studied and learnt Qur'aan and the beautiful eloquent messages and guidance, given direct by Allah, I realised that Muslims should study and be made to study Qur'aan first.
without islamic reference , quran will be misleading
Quote:
Most of hadith lovers should go and read Qur'aan first and then examine each and every Hadith under the light and shade of Qur'aan.
you are correct
Quote:
Learning a lot of hadith but not knowing the message of Qur'aan, in my view, is a crime.
correct again
Mushtaq
Posted:
Wed 10 Jun, 2009 10:21 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
parvez_mushtaq wrote:
without islamic reference , quran will be misleading
Mushtaq
Salam
Why don't you show us a few examples to your vague comment above?
Status: Age: 76 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Jun 12, 2007
Posts: 614
Post subject:
parvez_mushtaq wrote:
without islamic reference , quran will be misleading.
Hello, Parvez
Please correct me if I say that you actually wanted to write, "Qur'aan may not be fully understood.", because Qur'aan does not mislead.
I understood the simple Message of Qur'aan without even reading a single hadith. I read ahaadith only after I had finished my 105th reading of Qur'aan.
Can I use the word Islamic History in place of Islamic reference?
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